Inside the Heart of Yoga:

An Interview with T.K.V. Desikachar and his family following the Krishnamacharya Yoga Festival in San Francisco

Interview by Scott Peck

My private interview with T.K.V. Desikachar and his family began with chanting with Desikachar and his son responding to the chanting of his wife, daughter and American "daughter", Kate Holcombe. Translated from the Sanskrit, the words of the chant were, "We have inside our heart the light, and it is golden in color. As long as we are in touch with that, we have nothing to worry about. We will have everything. We are almost divine."

Interviewees:

Sri T.K.V. Desikachar: Son and student of the great yoga master T Krishnamacharya, he founded the Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram (KYM) a non-profit yoga center in Madras, India, in 1976 to share and propagate the teachings of his great teacher. He is the author of Health, Healing and Beyond and The Heart of Yoga: Developing a Personal Practice and co-author with his son Kausthub of Vedic Chant Companion and The Viniyoga of Yoga.

Kausthub Desikachar: Son of T.K.V. Desikachar, like his father did with his teacher, he continues to live and study with his teacher on a daily basis. He is Chief Executive of the KYM, as well as a senior teacher and yoga therapy consultant. At the same time, he is pursuing his Ph.D., in which he is researching the role of yoga in enhancing quality of life.

Menaka Desikachar: Wife of T.K.V. Desikachar, she teaches yoga and Vedic chanting at the KYM.

Mekhala Desikachar: She is the daughter of T.K.V. Desikachar as well as his student. Like her father, she has an engineering degree, but her true passion is singing and chanting. She and her father have recorded two audio CDs of Vedic chanting.

Kate Holcombe: Desikachar's longtime student and American "daughter", she was one of the teachers at the Krishnamacharya Yoga Festival. She is the founder of the Healing Yoga Foundation in San Francisco.

Q: Looking over your entire life, what have been the most important benefits of yoga for you personally?

T.K.V. Desikachar:

I was an engineer, but when I saw how my father was helping sick people, that's when I became a student of my father. I'm very grateful to a lady who came to see my father early in the morning, about 6 A.M. That surprised me. I asked my father why she was coming so early in the morning. He said she had had insomnia for 25 years. That was the day I decided to be my father's student. I realized that anybody could be an engineer, but in our society people who were suffering often had no hope, and I saw that my father's teaching could help. Being able to help suffering people has been the greatest benefit and experience in my life — and that is what I still do.

The second greatest contribution of yoga to my life was that it opened my eyes to the great wisdom of my country. I learned from my father to share the great wisdom of India with people in order to help them, regardless of their religion, caste or creed.

And personally, for me, to be an engineer was to be just a technician. I have discovered through yoga that there is something called heart. For me, that has been the greatest discovery. For example, while I was having breakfast today with Kausthub, a Chinese lady came up to me and said, "I went to this teacher and that teacher and I was very disappointed. Here, at this yoga festival, I have rediscovered that yoga is not just technique, but there is something called love and heart. That's why I want to thank you. Like a child she came to thank me. It was very touching.

Q: For your whole life, you have been a student and teacher of yoga. What are the most important lessons you have learned from a life devoted to learning and teaching yoga?

T.K.V. Desikachar:

What I have learned personally is that even though there have been lots of difficulties in my life, if I have faith in any being — it could be my teacher, it could be my God — somehow everything will work out. This has been my personal experience. My faith is in my teacher. I am not a typical Hindu Brahmin who turns to God all the time. I am different than others in my family. Everybody in my family is devoted to God. My mother was always wondering why I did not have the same connection to God. But my God is my teacher. Whenever there are difficulties or problems, I always feel, and even tell my wife, that my teacher will take care of me. My wife says, "Your arrogance is your faith in your teacher. You have too much confidence." It could be a financial problem, emotional crisis, family problems, anything, somehow it works for me. That has been my experience. As soon as I have faith in something, there is nothing to worry about.

Q: You have said that yoga is too big to fit into one style and yet, in the West, we often define our style of yoga. Is your advice to yoga teachers to simply call themselves yoga teachers?

T.K.V. Desikachar:

It's a very simple answer. It's not complicated. My father could have called his yoga "Krishnamacharya yoga." I don't think anybody knew what my father knew about yoga. He could have called it anything, yet he never said, "This is my yoga." I know he invented many things because of the necessities of life. And when he was exposed to the West for the first time, he had to present certain things he invented, but he never said it was his yoga. He always said, "It was my teacher who taught me."

The focus should not be to sell a product. The focus is to serve society. For example, I have sent some of my students to my uncle [B.K.S. Iyengar] to study because I thought my uncle would be the right person to help these students. So they went there and learned and received benefits, but they still have connection with me. So I am more interested in how we can help somebody. The moment we use a label, we are more involved with labels.

For example, if I want to sell a Mercedes Benz, I have to think it is the best car. Yet, even though the BMW is better for some people, I will not talk about BMWs, because if I talk about BMWs, I will not sell Mercedes cars. In India, we don't refer to "style." We always call it yoga. Whatever technique works is fine for us. The sad thing today is that the style has become more important than service. Until I breathe my last breath, I am going to fight against that."

Kausthub Desikachar:

Yoga is too big to fit into one style. In India, there is no question of style. Even the people who go to Mr. Iyengar say, "I am going to learn yoga in India." They don't say, "I go to learn Iyengar yoga." Only recently have there been articles written on styles of yoga in the West. In India, people say, "I go to yoga school." It does not matter which teacher they go to. They just say, "I go to yoga school to learn yoga."

Q: As you consider the future of yoga in the West, what do you envision?

T.K.V. Desikachar:

I am very positive. The camphor will evaporate, but the diamond will remain. There are still diamonds. Kate [Holcombe] is one of them. All these styles are like camphor. Slowly they will evaporate and be forgotten, but the diamond will always remain. I'm very optimistic, because when I meet people here, they are searching for something much more than style. Even in the elevator, they talk to me about that. There will be some struggles, naturally, but I'm very positive. There are still diamonds.

Q: During the question and answer period at the Krishnamacharya Yoga Festival, you were asked "How can we unite as yogis?" and your answer was, "We can unite by honoring the yoginis." Can you please expand on this?

T.K.V. Desikachar:

Yes, indeed. The sense of gratitude that women have and their values and feelings are different from men's. That's why we have to honor women, encourage women and give whatever we can to women, and we should not exploit women. I'm very sure that the future of yoga will be safe and solid because of all the yoginis. I hope there will be some yogis also.

For example, sometimes I say to my wife, "Why don't you cancel a lesson. Let's go for a walk." "No," she says, "I don't want to disappoint my students. If you want, you can go. I will not disappoint my students." My daughter also, when I say, "Why don't you take a break and stay with your fiancée for a week." "No," she says, "I have some students in Madras and I don't want to disappoint them." Yet if somebody were to invite me to Detroit, I run. There is something in women that is so different from men. I don't know how to explain it. Is it the right brain or heart or something else? That's why in India, first, God is mother; second, God is father; third, God is teacher. This is a timeless wisdom. That's why I want to honor yoginis. And I'm sure they will bring order and bring people together. I am very confident. And it's not easy because men have physical power, but how long can the physical power last?

Menaka Desikachar:

I agree with you. Many men are very busy with their business. Women, too, are doing so many things, yet, in spite of that they want to do something for the society. So surely, [she said with a laugh] yoginis are better than yogis. They are taking care of the children and everything else, yet they are teaching also. They do so many things.

Q: Do you see leadership falling equally with yoginis and yogis?

T.K.V. Desikachar:

Absolutely. When I began to teach in the1960s, there were very few women coming to take yoga. If I look at my old files, most of them were men. Today, in our school, we have nearly 60 teachers and the majority of them are women. And the people that are responsible for the different departments are mostly women, and they are so conscientious.

Kausthub Desikachar:

We have seven departments at the Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram in Madras, and five are led by women — publications, education, research, chanting and the social department, which deals with underprivileged people. The majority of our teachers are women, and the majority of our students are women. It's very amazing.

Q: What does your heart want most to say to all the yoga students and teachers?

T.K.V. Desikachar:

My heart wants to say, don't expect to receive. Give. Once you give, you will receive. If you exhale, then you can inhale. If you don't exhale, you cannot inhale. So exhale, give. That's what my heart says. My ego says something else.

Kausthub Desikachar:

When I'm dealing with some of my students, I say that what I have learned from my teacher that is most important — what I want you to do — is basically not to expect to be served by other people. We are there to serve the students. The student is most important, not the teacher. Do not do what you want to do. Do not do what is beneficial for you. Please do what is good for the student in front of you. This is what I have learned from my teacher. The only things my father has ever asked me to do were good for me, not for him. He's always been there to know what is good for me. I've never seen him exploit me or take advantage of the situation. That is what is really important. This is something we need to remember most. That is what I feel.

Kate Holcombe:

I'm thinking about my teacher who brought me to yoga and how much she gave me. Even though I went to Madras and took some classes and had some injuries and she helped me with that, those weren't the things that kept me in yoga. That wasn't the real part of yoga for me. It was the quality, something my teacher had that was so strong, who she was as a person, the connection. That's more important than any technique or style or anything from a book. It's the quality of the person, and making that link with the person is what sustains you. I told Sri Desikachar today how much I've learned about yoga from him — and certainly from my [first] teacher — as a result of my own relationship with each of them and from watching them in their relationships with their families and students. That taught me much more than anything from a book or a class. I think that's where the real value is. So if you can remember that — yoga as the relationship and the connection — that's what continues to sustain. That's the inspiration for everything I am doing today.

T.K.V. Desikachar:

Whenever Kate calls me, she is always asking about her students, saying, "My student has this problem or that problem. How can I help them?" I never notice that she has any problems. Afterwards, someone else may tell me something Kate is facing. She never tells this to me. She always spends her energy on how she can help her students. That is remarkable. Most people will not waste their time helping somebody else. This is something I see in Kate which is very rare. She has changed my views about the United States.

Menaka Desikachar:

I want to share something about my life. My husband has taught me yoga and chanting every day. That has changed me a lot. So, the same thing, when I teach my students, I tell them how yoga has changed me — my experiences with philosophy, asana practice, everything. Then I tell them to share this, all these benefits, with other people so they can also benefit from that, so they can also change from their old pattern and lifestyle to a new one that is very good for them. That's what I feel. What they received they should share, so that we all can be changed.

T.K.V. Desikachar:

You know, what is remarkable about my wife, she teaches quite a bit, but she never takes any payment. And when I say, "You are not receiving any money, why don't you cancel the class?" she says, "No. In fact, I should be more conscientious now than if I was receiving money — because my consciousness will prick if I [cancel a class]. I don't want to be selfish. I want to be clean."

I have been very lucky because from a very young age, I never had financial problems, but my wife comes from a very, very poor family. Money is very important. She's from a large family, and she lost her father when she was a baby, and her mother was not well. But, in spite of that, what is astonishing is that she's more attentive to classes and more conscientious even though she is not receiving one cent. That is what I admire about her.

Mekhala Desikachar:

I think that the most important thing for any student is to have faith in the practice they are doing, faith that this practice is going to help them, and they should continue doing it until they receive the benefits. By practicing for just one or two days, things are not going to work out. So it has to be a continuous effort with the constant faith that this is going to help them. This is the most important thing for any student to have inside — the faith in the practice they are doing. And the second thing is to always have the yearning inside them — that they are always a student and there is always something to learn. It is never that you have learned everything. There should be the feeling inside that I have to learn more, I have to learn more. That's what I feel like sharing.

Scott Peck is an author, photographer, & yogi who lives in San Diego, California. He is the co-founder, with his wife Shannon Peck, of The Love Center, a non-profit education organization "holding the space for all humanity to live in healing love." More of his photographs may be found on his Web site, www.ScottPeck.net and their co-authored writings on love and healing at www.TheLoveCenter.com. He may be E-mailed at ScottPeck@aol.com.